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Budget watching
From Andy Gruse:
This the note on the agenda bill for Monday’s budget hearing, 9-23-09 6pm at the convention center.
“A revised 2010 Preliminary Budget is expected to be distributed on November 19 as staff continues to process input from City Council, the public, and employees to balance the 2010 Preliminary Budget especially the 633,309 deficit in the General Fund 001 and the 686,616 deficit in the EMS Fund 104.
Copies of the revise 2010 Preliminary Budget will be posted on the City’s website and paper copies will be available at the Ocean Shores City Hall and the Ocean Shores Library.”
Citizens are looking to see if the amount budgeted for the Library and Interpretive Center will be zero. This was expected to be posted on filepro yesterday, the city’s web location for taxpayer’s city documents. Filepro is where documents like this have been posted in the past.This is November 20 with the weekend coming up and it appears to not be there. If anybody comes across a copy let all your friends and neighbors know where it is so it can be read before council approves it. You can search for it at http://oceanshores.fileprosite.com/contentengine/launch.asp?ID=734
Many feel the most fair and equitable course of action is to cut all departments proportionately in order to make up the $1,319,925 deficit. That way no department gets a death sentence.
If the city values its credibility you should see the 2010 Preliminary Budget today. If you find a copy somewhere let everyone know where they can read it before the hearing.
Andy
Yeah, I liked him, he was pretty cool.
Whatever happened to the cop with the shaved head? I always saw him pulling people over! I was always afraid to go out and drive in town at night….not that I was doing anything wrong, but I ALWAYS saw our police department out…maybe it was just me, but I though they were doing a good job!
Yeah for being Dumbfounded! And well put too! Time to get real, this is getting millions of dollars rediculous. And I’m sick of hearing about it. People seem to have way too many opinions but not enought time to spend doing somethign productive in their community (other than attending meetings and taking up time with absurd requests and monologues, and posting their senseless monologues on this site). Get real or get out. It is what it is, work with it, but stop workign against it. You’re actually STALLING the process rather than helping it with your crappy tactics. Ain’t that food for thought.
I am tired of hearing how the unions are holding the city captive. The firefighters union has met the city more than half way giving up a firefighter paramedic Position and reducing their salary. But you never hear of this, Our public safety is at risk already with short staffing issues. Their local union has only 11 members and has given up a substantial sum of $$$. Now the city wants more more more. Just like everything else when is enough enough?? The city needs to look elswhere and quit putting our safety and security at risk. Sell more city property and liquidate. Keep our community literate and reading. “Save the library”. Why are all these big projects going on if we can’t even pay city employees. This is not making any sense and now another $300,000 for a flippin study. Come on people wise up.
Quit taking our basic city services away from us because of your bad and worse financial blunders……
Birddog,
I respond, point by point, in order :
What you are referring to is not usually known as “community service”. What you are referring to is more public interest and your rights as a community member to attend public meetings and choose to spend your time and money to support a specific cause. Altruism defines community service and your listed activities and the way you participate are more of a personal interest than a community interest. And while you claim to have community interest in many aspects, your listed involvements do not include any sort of community service, both by the definition or the incidental circumstances you provided. So bravo for attending to your civic rights but this is not considered “community service”. Community service consists of giving but giving of opinions and not of oneself does not qualify.
You say “watching” public employees, I say “spying”. And I never said they are saints, nor did I hear anyone else say this either…. So I say, WHAT?!?
You speak of the computers in the patrol cars, it is my understanding that these particular computers are NOT equipped with cameras, nor are they linked to the vehicle to provide the data you are declaring they do. These are strictly to provide officers with data from the dispatch center and allow them to search arrest records and reports within the county. The computers, DO however, have call logs, but this information is also available through the police department. That’s awesome that you had the chance to be in vehicles owned by other departments where this technology was available (and funded). Unfortunately, it does not look like OSPD has that kind of money to pay for camera laden, information recording databases located in each vehicle. Actually, I think the computer systems are shared by on duty officers as there are not enough to go around.
As for Rafael’s statement, I saw the officer’s down at the jetty as well, and I thought they were doing a fine job of community policing when they were telling jetty visitors to heed the high surf and warning them of the dangers of the jetty during storms. As for the “hours at the library”, I cannot comment from firsthand experience, but as a city building that happens to be located next to the police station, I would not be so pompous as to suggest I know their activities there or even question why they were in a city-owned building next their own. Perhaps it was “city business”.
You say that if you see the police then they should be seen doing “police activities”. And what qualifies you to determine exactly which interactions do and do not qualify as “police activity”? You are making assumptions and that can be quite dangerous. Things are not always what they seem…
You assert that I do not participate in developing volunteer activities and you question my qualifications regarding your opinions… First of all, you do not know me, and you do not know what I participate in. However, you have clearly stated your participation and therefore I may make comment. Secondly, I do not need to be qualified to question your opinion, only the information you use to form it. Both of which I assure you I am doing more for than you are based on your own words.
I said the police and fire are staffed for their needs, what I meant to say is that the police and fire are staffed for the needs of the city. I aplogize for my typo.
Lastly, you mention that only one officer in the police department was laid off, and your information is misleading and incorrect. Yes, one officer who was on the force for a very short time was arrested for drinking and driving and was subsequently fired for his activity. That particular position was then eliminated. Had an officer been hired to replace the errant one, he/she would have been laid off, instead, the position was never filled and no longer exists. That is #1. Then another officer was let go last April due to budget cuts and this was lay off #2.
I am all for people expressing their opinions but when they are uninformed and uneducated, it becomes a little wearisome.
Miss. Kitty makes some good points about community service. Many of us do it in different ways. Some go to community meetings to review plans for the future,observe goverment in action regarding parks, airports, radio stations and budgets, or they go to social functions to support community fund raising. Each person chooses the meeting, event or activity that they are either physically or mentally capable of assisting.
Being a citizen that watches what police, fire and public employees are doing is also a function of good citizenship. I have never been told that all public employees are saints.
You bring up the activities of police officers during the day. They do have a computer located just to the right of them. Many of these computers have cameras attached. These same computers are linked into the vehicle to record speed, miles driven, and log calls. I have been in other department’s vehicles with this equipment.
In fact, many utility companies use similar equipment to track personnel in the field.
As stated by rafael, there are times where vehicles are parked in places where the activities you mention are not occuring. The incident logs and data provided annually by the police and fire department clearly show their activity.
Usually a neighbor contacts the police after contacting the neighbor about an issue that they have between them. The police are generally the last resort they take. However, to educate you, your advice is contrary to what the police have told many citizens. They say contact them to avoid escalating tensions.
As to seeing or not seeing officers, that misses the point made by many citizens. If they are seen, then they should be seen doing police duties. For example, traffic stops when you see 4 cars blow through a stop sign in front of the officer. Night after night at the library is not community policing. Citizens have heard the conversations. 30 to 45 minutes at the coffee shack is not checking in. Officers on street beats move from place to place showing their presence. The officer asks if all is OK or just nods their head and moves on. It is a quick hello Bob, hello Sue.
Ask how many new residents have ever met their community police officer. We know when the house get water service. We could communicate that to the police to allow them to introduce themselves. Even a call would suffice.
What gives you the qualifications to criticize anyone else’s opinion of community policing? I would bet my community club dues that you have not looked for other places definitions and practices. I have.
As to many people have been laid off, we have lost one officer in both departments as of the last count per the organizational chart. The police officer lost was arrested for drunk driving. But saints do not do that, do they?
As to citizens wasting city resources, you may be right. They do call the EMS/fire department when they should not. However, we do not use what we use for people outside the city, a fee for not transporting.
Yes, citizens call police and fire to save cats from behind water heaters, under houses, and who knows what else. We have plumbers, pest control people, and a multitude of other businesses here that should be responding to these calls.
It is sort of like burglar alarms. Many cities have a private patrol service respond to the call first. Then, if there is a need, police are called to follow up. The homeowner pays a fine if the police are called for false alarms.
As to changing government and the current affairs, one need only see that the city is 1.3 million in the hole. Even if we replaced the old EMS levy of $261,000, we would still be over 1 million dollars in the hole. Citizens have been pointing out this fact for over two years.
They are even people that have tried to develop emergency preparedness and disaster recovery efforts.
However, citizens like Miss Kitty think the police and fire will save them and do not participate in developing these volunteer programs.
In fact, the city has thwarted this effort because they asked questions. They wanted to be able to supplement and not duplicate efforts. They also wanted to help the city do the reviews necessary to assess our status. They wanted to get grants to improve our ability to respond to things that impact the citizens. But the egos would not let that happen. So, when citizens are kicked in the teeth enough times, they stop trying to organize and respond.
Look at the Library and Interpretive Center. Two places citizens use. They are the first things to go. We buy or build buildings for staff, but not expand the library. Even when they have grant money to get the project going.
The fact that the unions will not come and meet the city half way, like other cities and the county union employees have, shows their true colors. The fire employees have done it some, but others have not.
That would not be solved by volunteering.
In fact, it has been citizens that have flushed out the issues regarding water, streets, and other areas that have presented problems.
Oh, you clearly state one fact that sums up your argument well. I will quote you:
“The police and fire departments were staffed for their needs.”
I think the operative word is “their”. That should say “our”. We may have to modify “their” behviour to meet “our” needs. They may have to change what they have been doing to what is needed to be done. I know change is hard, but we all have learned to do it.
Apparently Miss Kitty has not observed the patrol cars sitting at the jetty, for hours on end. I’m sure they are in the process of protecting those jetty rocks from theft and keeping them out of harm’s way. I’m sure that the hours they spend at the library is to catch one of those book thieves in the act. Maybe Miss Kitty should get around to observing these activities before she launches her “praise the police” campaign.
I sit here week after week and watch many of you make assumptions and misguided judgments about the individuals who are working for your city (and therefore you). You have dehumanized them, blamed them, called them nasty names, and made some fairly uneducated statements about them and what they do, and attempted to define in your own terms, the scope of their duties.
I have seen you harp on the police department for not patrolling enough. Now you want to know where the gas money is being spent. You want to have a break down on how much gas is spent on patrolling, community policing etc… It is apparent that you have no idea what police do in a given day. They drive around, looking for traffic infractions; they take calls from distressed citizens and businesses; they engage in community policing activities; and much much more. Sometimes (believe it or not) they are returning from responding to a call when they observe a traffic infraction. Sometimes they enter area businesses to check in and make sure there are no issues (I think this falls under community policing….). They have a very strong presence in this community as part of the community policing, which is why you see them visiting numerous businesses throughout the day and night. To have them account for each and everything they do and how it is allocated fuel-wise is ridiculous. “Left police station and sat at the roundabout/intersection to watch traffic… .02 miles from station. Received called to disorderly 5.23 miles round trip, except that I stopped a car for doing 50 in a 35 about halfway back, so half of the return at 1.31 miles is actually doing traffic control???” Get real, Birddog!
You all complain if they are not seen, then complain when they are seen. Could you make up your mind already? And who qualified you to determine what the police department considers “Community Policing”??? Maybe you would like to get a vague definition before conjuring up your own? And then if you got your answer, what besides your opinion makes you qualified to assess whether or not that is something that is needed and “qualifies” (which, I would bet my community club membership that you would do)????
When the new speed limit was a hot topic, many of you complained that the police were not there to patrol your one street. Well, you’re in favor of cutting positions and then wonder why two officers can’t be in all places at once in the city. This is ridiculous.
The police and fire departments were staffed for their needs. Many people have been laid off. Take a look at the amount of over time that has been spent to make up for those cut positions. Then realize that police officers, fire fighters, and EMTs are humans too and have family emergencies, become ill, and need to take vacations (God forbid this city slaves take care of themselves or their families). Now that the staffing is cut to bare bones, we are paying for that same level of care in overtime. These are not shifts that can just be left uncovered and you would all complain if they were! I would be willing to bet we are spending more in overtime than we would have if those positions had been kept staffed.
Rather than sit there all cozy at your home computer day after day, writing scathing comments on TNCN proporting to have answers and belitting those who are actually out there working, why don’t you get off your duff and make a real difference?
Rather than make your own definitions about how police and fire should be spending their time (and fuel), why don’t you go tell your neighbor to stop calling the police when the dog down the street barks? The code enforcement officer was let go, and this is a waste of police time. Tell them to go talk to the neighbor in a nice way about their barking dog. Got a neighbor (or may it’s you) that doesn’t like the neighbor’s bonfire? Tell the neighbor it’s offensive, don’t make an anonymous call to the fire department about a “possible illegal burn”.
The citizens waste the city’s resources far more than the employees do, but it’s much more comfortable and convenient to place blame on the individuals who are out there doing what the rest of us are trying to do: do their jobs, live their lives, and go home at night to their families.
If you are that invested in the future of your city, then shut off your computer and get out there and make a real difference. Join the neighborhood watch, volunteer at the fire department, volunteer at the library, volunteer at the shelter… Just do something other than sit back, cast mis-informed judgment and feed into the negativity that is taking this city like the plague. Sick, sick, sick, of hearing all of this without anyone offering up a REAL hand to make a change. You can’t change the government or the state of affairs, but you can change what you do to impact it and I see far more people feeding into the internet frenzy of posted opinions than I ever do people sticking their neck out for the greater good. THOSE are the people who really care and whose opinions should be heard. Not yours.
Hey Birddog!! I would vote for you as councilman!!
Well said Birddog!
Monday is the Jack in the Box day for the budget. It will spring out at us as we take our seats at the council meeting. We will rush to read it and have no time to review it properly. The council members, those not in the know, will be in the same situation. Will it have detail? Certainly not. We will just have the general definitions that don’t set forth what each department plans to do with the money they get.
We all know that come January, Feb., March, April, May, etc., etc. we will have budget amendments proposed because we need this thing or that thing purchased or hired because we did not plan for things like the 4th of July.
We will hear that there is some deadline, known months before, and that if we don’t act right away we will lose an opportunity. We will hear lipservice about how they were told by the mayor to have all this in next year’s budget when that time comes, but will hear that he asked them to take it our because it kept a Full Time Employee by not including it. Maybe we need an ordinance that prohibits such actions.
If it is not in the budget because of such a manuver, then it can not be allowed. In fact, if it is not in the budget, we need to find the money elsewhere in that department’s budget.
Give us a detailed budget that shows more than the “no change” descriptions of programs and activities. I want to see goals, objectives, priorites, and how each one is going to be met. I want to see numbers that represent something tangible. I want to see hours of patrol, hours of traffic enforcement, hours spent doing Community Policing and specifics regarding that program. I do’t consider talking to the library staff Community Policing. I don’t consider talking to staff at coffee shops Community Policing.
I want to see firemen act as fire marshals and visit homes along the beach dunes to give orders to cut back brush near the homes that may cause them to be a greater risk to personnel during the fire season. If they are going to take the equipment our during the year, they should be on patrol for dangerous situations.
A good defense is a good offense.
Finance should be on top of every dollar with the new software. We should have knowledge of details as well as the 50,000 foot analysis. Without detail, we are just guessing. It is like wetting your finger and checking the wind. We know there is wind, but we do not know how stong it is.
That attitude has gotten us into this mess. Good enough is not good enough any more. We are in real danger now. We can’t sell, beg, or borrow our way out of this problem now. We must act with a view towards what will keep all departments open with even minimal service.
We see city vehicles go home for lunch, take their kids to school and to the doctors! We are going to start taking pictures because I do not feel free gas should be one of the benefits.
City vehicles are filled up at the Public Works facility at Ocean Lake and Canal. The question to ask is if they keep track of each department’s use of the fuel. Do they log miles, fuel taken on by the vehicle or any other information? Then we would be able to see how far these individual vehicles go over the year. Seeing that police vehicles are assigned to certain officers, we would then be able to compare patrol coverage too. As to fire, we would see some idea of how much mileage is being put on ambulances, equipment, and administrative vehicles. In the administrative side, we would see similar information. I always find it interesting that city vehicles go to the post office every day when they have both delivery and pickup service provided by the USPS.
Still waiting for the “revised” 2010 preliminary budget at 4:19 PM on 11-20-09. I hope it has a line item in each department for fuel costs which were not shown on the initial 2010 budget. Not sure where the fuel costs were allocated and I would think that this would be a large expense for the city based on the fluctuating fuel prices during peak seasons that could be broken out and not lumped in under a different category.